Well put.

I'm worried that Australia is heading the same way. Despite belonging to the highest level of a major health fund I still find medical bills that are not covered.

BTW, has Bush managed to handle the terrorists?

Thanks for attaching some meat to the lazy bones of my quotepost, BB. You are right, of course. Bread and circuses.

I didn't for Bush before (didn't vote for his Daddy either) And I have no intentions of voting for him next time around. Unfortunately, I think I'll be in the minority.

Unfortunately I can never tell any difference in the major candidates. Had the other guy won I don't believe there would have been one whit's worth of difference in what we have today.

Nice job, Bb! Add to non-coverage the inadequate coverage that affects many, and the user-hostile coverage by which Big Med Co.s keep patients at bay in order to preserve profits, and the picture gets even grimmer. National Health is not a panacea--but at least it errs on the side of compassion for the poorest. Would I rather have "choice"? Well, sure--but how much of a choice to I have now, with a health plan that doesn't associate my fmaily with the practices that are nearest us because they won't low-bid for our insurer?

I have a small business five employees one has insurance coverage through her husband the monthly cost of the other four is $1500 a month and every year it goes up. I can't really afford it but I refuse to quit providing it. This country needs a single payer system. Not likely to happen because then the corporations can't split up our monthly premiums. A cut for the agent, a cut for the insurance company, a cut for the stockholders, a cut that slices your heart right out. One employee was just diagnosed with MS and her medical bills would be impossible without the insurance. It's a shame there is so much greed in this country that basic health care is either not available or too expensive for our citizens. I'm pessimistic as long as its one dollar one vote I don't see much hope.

Worldwide we need the compassion of people like Norman, but it is a drop in an ocean of greed. While he does the right thing, what happens if any of his staff leave? Often it is not possible to transfer medical funding. So imagine his MS staffer eventually having to leave the job, what then?

The current situation is that the people who really need the coverage lose it at the first convenient opportunity for the insurers.

Saddly, I think the best chance in years to do something on this was attempted during Clinton's presidency - and the big company insurance companies pushed with a very clever advertising campaign that shut it down - by the people turning their anger against the effort.

I called the insurance situation criminal at my site. I meant it. It's a real - real barrier to getting people out of poverty.

I'm all for welfare reform. Don't get me wrong. But does anyone realize what many (most?) lower end employeers do to keep insurance costs down?

Ride you near full time (if you qualify for full time you qualify for benefits), but keep you part time.

So you begin to earn enough money to be kicked off of assistence - and you lose your government backed health insurance - only to find out that your employeer is dangling full time status in front of you like a friggin' carrot.

This actually happened to me - for years. Six years I had no insurance because of my artificial part time status.

I had 15 friggin' cavities the first time I made it back to a dentist.

I don't know what a solution would look like. There are so many issues involved.

But Clinton tried - at least he tried - and what thanks did he get for it?

There are other reasons not to vote for Bush. Like - is that the man you want to nominate Supreme Court justices? Realize that Roe Vs. Wade is gonna be history after Bush's very first Court nomination get's approved. History. Wave bye bye to it. The court is already slanted conservative and it will be overwhelmingly so after that nomination.

Then again... I'm really not sure where I stand on President Bush. Part of me does feel he is handling a terrible crisis better then what I imagine Gore would have done (I voted for Gore). Then again I could be wrong.

So I don't know. But I do know you're absolutely right BB - you shouldn't vote single issue no matter what.

Gotta get informed. Gotta vote smart.

Believe it or not - there was a lesson I learned by watching the Clinton effort unravel.... it's how much the country *is* ran by the people.

Influence the will of the people (the bigco advertising campaign) and the politicians follow.

So let me say to you - if you really want universal health care coverage (I do) - then the people you need to influence are not in Washington - but are down the street from you working for middle-class wages.

They are the ones that need to give a shit cause if they do - then change will actually occur.

Gotta love America for that.

Ah, yes, remembering how close we came (or might have come) to real, fair health care under the Clinton plan ... I liked Bob Woodward's book about it, "The Choice," which revealed that before the plan was announced or anything about it was known -- how much benefit it would bring for what cost, or how good or bad for consumers and employers it might be -- Newt Gingrich rallied the Republican troops and declared it had to be killed, because the GOP could not allow the newly elected, hated Clinton such a "win" ... and 70 percent of the press coverage of the plan was not about its content, benefits, or costs, but about the political contest or which side was winning. Which side was losing? You got it -- the consumer. Will it take 50% uninsured, riots in the streets, and a dozen more crappy movies like "John Q" to break the fat cats' hold on Congress?

Thanks for remembering Eric. I honestly believe it's quite simple - all it will take is for the population not to believe in big money advertising campaigns.

But that's a bigger fight then most people realize.

It's a shame really. It was *this* close. Yet public opinion turned amoungst voters and that killed it. Public opinion shaped by a clever advertising and propaganda campaign financed by the insurance companies and supported by the GOP.

Good for you to remember the press' roll too Eric. They went for the ratings - the controversy and who was winning - instead of covering the issue in a way that informed people what they needed to know.

Instead we saw crazy organizational charts.

Thanks alot TV news.

the small 3-person business i work for spent $17,000 last year on health insurance. a 58 year old co-worker will not be able to take his planned retirement because his wife has just developed myasthenia gravis.

I agree. I just had surgery for throat cancer that cost over $40,000. I doubt that I would have jeopardized my wife's future by having the surgery if I hadn't had medical insurance.

Of course, I also agree that the most important thing is to convince the public that medical insurance is necessary.

Few politicians could survive the hit the Clintons took at the beginning of his first term when they tried to get universal medical coverage.

It would seem to me that we should be paying attention to more than the "war on terrorism", which it comes to a vote. Regardless of who we vote for, the least we can do is make them count rather than blindly following our fears and going with the status quo.

Loren, I wish you a healthy recovery. And Kivah and Norman, I'm pretty darn impressed when a small business fights to keep health coverage for their employees.